Full transcript of “Face the Nation” on October 10, 2021

On this “Face the Nation” broadcast moderated by Margaret Brennan:

  • Rep. Adam Schiff, (D) California, Author, “Midnight in Washington”
  • Fiona Hill, Former National Security Council Senior Director for European and Russian Affairs
  • Mary C. Daly, President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco
  • Dr. Scott Gottlieb, Former FDA Commissioner
  • Chris Krebs, CBS News Cybersecurity Expert and Analyst, Partner, Krebs Stamos Group, Former Director, Cybersecurity and Infrastructure Security Agency
  • Anthony Salvanto, CBS News Elections & Surveys Director  

Click right here to browse full transcripts of “Face the Nation.”

MARGARET BRENNAN: I’m Margaret Brennan in Washington. And this week on FACE THE NATION, the challenges going through America proceed to develop as Democrats in Washington’s window of alternative to make daring modifications continues to slim. After yet one more cringeworthy show of partisan politics over the nation’s potential to pay its payments, a disappointing jobs report. Growing fears about inflation and supply-chain issues and sharpening battle traces on the vaccine, President Biden continues to be upbeat but practical.

PRESIDENT JOE BIDEN: Things in Washington, as you all know, are awfully noisy. Turn on the information and each dialog is a confrontation. Every disagreement is a disaster. We’re making constant, regular progress although.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But time is of the essence as a result of that is in the President’s rear-view mirror.

DONALD TRUMP: Our nation’s comeback begins in November 2022 when we will reclaim the House and we will reclaim the United States Senate.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll have recent insights into what Americans are pondering in our new CBS information ballot. Then we’ll ask St. Francisco FED President Mary Daly what’s slowing our jobs restoration. With the Pfizer vaccine for youngsters between 5 and 11 nearing FDA fast-track approval, we’ll get an replace on how quickly that shot could possibly be obtainable from former FDA commissioner and Pfizer board member Doctor Scott Gottlieb.

Plus, a more in-depth have a look at disinformation, misinformation, and their menace to democracy. House Intelligence Committee Chairman Adam Schiff’s new e book is “Midnight in Washington.”

Former Trump administration Russia skilled Fiona Hill has simply written, “There Is Nothing For You Here.”

Rounding out our conversations, CBS News cybersecurity skilled and analyst Chris Krebs.

It’s all simply forward on FACE THE NATION.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Good morning. And welcome to FACE THE NATION. After final week’s disappointing jobs report and the newest spherical of price range battles on Capitol Hill, we’re reminded but once more that covid continues to be the largest drag on our financial restoration. We start with CBS News Senior National Correspondent Mark Strassmann in Atlanta this morning.

(Begin VT)

WOMAN #1: (Expletive Deleted) individuals.

WOMAN #2: Hey, are you able to watch your language? You, there are round children.

MARK STRASSMANN (CBS News Senior National Correspondent): More than a second, brief of a dysfunction, COVID America has functioning anxiousness, day after day, dwelling with this lingering virus.

CROWD (in unison): We is not going to comply. We is not going to comply.

MARK STRASSMANN: Upset, unsure, on edge, pissed off different individuals who sarcastically really feel the similar method will not come to their senses.

MAN: We need to finish this pandemic. We’re all exhausted by it.

MARK STRASSMANN: Including most vaccinated Americans. Our new CBS ballot discovered 56% of them stated they have been in danger as a result of of the unvaccinated. The virus ad infinitum has killed greater than 700,000 Americans. There is a few hope, instances now declining in 32 states.

WOMAN #3: One, two, three.

MARK STRASSMANN: And Pfizer is hoping its vaccine for youths, ages 5 to 11, will get emergency approval by the finish of the month. Not a second too quickly as the Delta variant stays pitiless. Our relationship standing with America’s financial system additionally difficult, cash-happy shoppers need to spend, however too usually the message in shops: We’re out of that. Empty grocery cabinets in North Carolina, meals shortages for varsity. And but off the coast of Southern California a half million delivery containers look ahead to unloading. Even excellent news appears to come back with a catch. Take America’s new jobless charge: Less than 5%. Fewer than 200,000 new jobs have been created final month, a serious disappointment.

Even with tens of millions of openings, employers cannot discover good assist nowadays or any assist. Millions of jobless individuals now keep residence. Why danger working and catching COVID, particularly for mediocre cash.

WOMAN #4: What do we wish?

CROWD (in unison): (INDISTINCT).

WOMAN #4: When do we wish it?

CROWD (in unison): Now.

MARK STRASSMANN: At Buffalo’s Mercy Hospital, this strike has drifted into its second week. Hundreds of well being care staff demanding extra staffing and higher pay. They are pressured they usually’ve had it. Sound acquainted?

(End VT)

MARK STRASSMANN: More pandemic stress is on its method for personal employers. Osha remains to be working on issuing emergency steerage for necessary vaccinations and testing for any firm that employs a minimum of 100 individuals. At least 24 states have promised to battle it. Margaret?

MARGARET BRENNAN: Mark, thanks. We need to check out America’s views on some of these challenges going through the nation, and notably how President Biden is dealing with them. Our CBS News ballot out at the moment signifies that the President’s approval ranking is at 50%. It has stabilized following the chaotic Afghanistan pullout, and is underpinned by optimistic views on dealing with the COVID outbreak and distribution. But Americans’ view of the financial system has steadily decreased since this summer time. Less than 40% now assume it is in good condition. Joining us now’s CBS News Director of Elections and Surveys Anthony Salvanto. Good morning to you, Anthony.

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Good morning, Margret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Anthony, repeatedly we hear it’s the virus that determines the course of the financial system. So, with that in thoughts, what are Americans telling you about whether or not or not they’re keen to vaccinate their youngsters when it turns into obtainable for five to 11 yr olds?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, not everyone would. And I believe that units up one of the key numbers to trace as we go ahead in the subsequent section of preventing this pandemic. You’ve obtained simply over a 3rd who say instantly sure they might. You’ve obtained nearly as many who instantly say no they might not. And then you definitely’ve obtained people in the center who’re maybes. I ought to add that there’s a robust connection between whether or not the dad and mom themselves are vaccinated and whether or not they would get their children, 5 to 11, vaccinated. That’s a majority of vaccinated dad and mom who would, and it is a majority of unvaccinated dad and mom who say they might not. We’ve been monitoring this in our polling, on this and all through the yr. It’s a mix of very private causes, but in addition some which have a political tinge to it. So there are people, the majority of them unvaccinated, who say they’re anxious about the unwanted effects for themselves. But there may be additionally a majority that say they do not belief the authorities. Some who’re skeptical that they do not assume that the vaccine works.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So given all of that, what are Americans telling you about what they’re keen to do proper now in the case of going out and spending?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Yeah. And that is so necessary for the financial system going ahead. First of all, as the vacation season approaches, persons are fascinated with who they will go to, who they collect with, proper? There’s 1 / 4 of people who inform us that this vacation season they’re solely going to assemble with different vaccinated individuals, that they are vaccinated. And there are some who assume it will likely be a mix of gathering each vaxxed and unvaxxed. But there’s a third who say they don’t seem to be positive or they will not verify. Maybe that is a clumsy dialog to have. Maybe they do not know easy methods to increase it. So that is one thing to look at in phrases of conduct and the way individuals exit and who they hang around with. Then there may be the financial system in phrases of the place individuals go and spend cash. Well, for the vaccinated individuals, they are saying they’d could be extra snug in the event that they knew there have been vaccine necessities to, for instance, get on a aircraft, go to a restaurant, even return to their office. And that is the majority of individuals, in order that financial impression could possibly be fairly robust in the event that they really feel snug. Maybe that places extra stress on companies to place these varieties of necessities in place.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Anthony, President Biden stated that it was the virus impacting the jobs and hiring, but in addition stated that if his spending packages are handed, that it’ll assist to alleviate all of this. How is his effort to get this handed resonating?

ANTHONY SALVANTO: Well, firstly, loads of individuals say they do not know what’s in the proposal. In reality, it is just one in ten that thinks they really feel they– they know loads of the specifics. Then we went and we examined particular person objects on this, and what we discovered was that persons are extra acquainted with the potential prices and the spending facets in greenback figures than they’re with any of the specific insurance policies that may find yourself in it. So, take a look at this: you have obtained a majority of individuals who say they’ve heard one thing about that it is perhaps 3.5 trillion in spending. You’ve obtained a majority of individuals who say they’ve heard one thing about potential tax will increase for higher-income individuals. But that actually outweighs the quantity of individuals who’ve heard about issues like reducing Medicare drug costs or Medicare protection being expanded to dental and eye and listening to. Now, there may be excellent news for Democrats on this, too, though there may be this lack of data, and that’s that these pol– these coverage proposals are fashionable in precept. Where does that each one go away you, although? Well, there aren’t a majority of individuals who really feel like this invoice proper now would assist them and their household or assist the financial system. That’s half of that disconnect and that lack of consciousness, and that is going to be, I believe, the massive measure to look at going ahead. Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Anthony, thanks.

We go now to California Democrat Adam Schiff, Chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, he’s additionally on the panel investigating the January sixth assault on the Capitol. And the writer of a brand new e book, “Midnight in Washington: How We Almost Lost Our Democracy and Still Could.” We’ll get into all of that shortly. But, Congressman, I need to begin on the financial system. You simply heard the public would not actually know what’s on this huge spending invoice Democrats try to muscle by alongside celebration traces. Isn’t this a big drawback for the celebration?

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF (D-California/Chair, Intelligence Committee/Author, “Midnight in Washington”/@RepAdamSchiff): I can not quarrel with any of the polling outcomes. I believe I hear the similar factor that not sufficient Americans know what’s on this invoice, however once they discover out they actually applaud what’s in it, specifically, increasing Medicare to cowl listening to and dental and imaginative and prescient care, reducing prescription drug costs, increasing household and paid medical go away, in addition to childcare and lifting youngsters out of poverty. So the provisions of the invoice are massively fashionable, however there’s been a lot fixation on what’s the quantity that the House and Senate are going to comply with, what’s the quantity that Democrats can come collectively on? I do assume this can be a very short-lived drawback. We’re going to get each of these payments handed. They’re going to be enormously necessary to the financial system. And as soon as we do, we’re not going to make the mistake I believe we did with the Affordable Care Act. We’re going to exit and we will promote this and let individuals know the way it’s straight impacting them.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But do not Democrats have to get forward of that messaging now? I imply, you have got unified management. This is going– you have to present you may govern.

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: Well, that is precisely proper. And– and we do. And one factor that I believe President Biden has been pitch excellent on that each one of us have to amplify is, that is, you understand, firstly about serving to Americans get by this terrible pandemic and serving to their households cope and survive economically. But it’s also key to the pro-democracy agenda that we’ve got, and that’s we’ve got to point out that our democracy can ship.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Right, however that is the problem is once you’re doing it solely on celebration traces, it as soon as once more seems to be to individuals at residence like, they can not get alongside, Washington’s not working once more.

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: Well, look, we’ve got a Republican Party that’s now an autocratic cult round Donald Trump. It just isn’t excited about governing. It’s not excited about even sustaining the– the solvency and the credit score worthiness of the nation. And we’ve got to acknowledge that they don’t seem to be excited about governing. And so, we will govern, we will must do it. And if we’ve got to do it with our personal votes, we’ll do this. But we have to present that democracy delivers, that it could possibly assist individuals put meals on the desk, that it could possibly handle these enormous disparities in revenue.


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: There’s a lot purpose why our democracy is at this fragile level proper now, and we have to foremost ship on the financial system, but in addition on– on voting rights and cease these efforts to disenfranchise individuals.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You simply made an unimaginable assertion about an autocratic cult. This is one of the themes in your e book. You aren’t usually in comparison with conservative writers like Robert Kagan, however you come to principally the similar conclusion he simply did in a really broadly learn essay the place he says basically that it is the Republican Party that’s attempting to put the groundwork to problem the subsequent few elections. You say making ready the battlefield for the wrestle to overturn the election, ought to they regain majorities in Congress, they is perhaps profitable. You’re saying we’re on the cusp of a constitutional disaster?

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: Yes. And that is actually why I wrote the e book as a result of I would like it to sound the alarm that our democracy is hanging by a thread proper now. As a member of the January sixth committee, you understand, I’ve to acknowledge there could also be one other violent assault on the Capitol, however what’s much more urgent a menace is what we see Republicans doing round the nation taking this massive lie about the final election and operating with it. And I wished to inform the story on this e book about how– how does that occur, how in 4 brief years does our democracy change into so threatened? And one of the horrible realizations for me is that so many of the individuals I labored with throughout the aisle, who I admired and revered as a result of I consider that they believed what they have been saying, turned out to not consider it in any respect. That the solely factor that they cared about was the upkeep of their energy or place.


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: And I need to present individuals how that occurs, how– how individuals begin by making small compromises of their morality and their values and their ideology and find yourself fully capitulating as a result of one of the issues we found in– in the impeachment trial, however actually each trials is that there is nothing incorrect about our Constitution. The provisions are sensible. But except they’re animated by individuals who– who give content material to their oath that– that–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –understand the significance of proper and incorrect, none of it really works. And proper now, we noticed Grassley in Iowa yesterday, unable to sentence the President’s effort to– to get the Justice Department to overturn the election. Scalise this morning, one other Republican leader–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –unable to acknowledge that the election wasn’t stolen. It’s these private capitulations which might be placing our nation in danger.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And– and that is a shift from the place Senator Grassley, who accepted the President– former President’s endorsement, was proper after the occasions of January sixth. But I need to come again to the place you lay blame since you say it is “we, the country who made Donald Trump possible. We– he would not have been able to batter and break so many of our Democratic norms had we not let him, had we not been capable of endless rationalization, had we not forgotten why we came to office in the first place…” What duty do you assume Democrats have for damaging the religion of the nation, as properly?

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: Look, I believe Democrats have been defending our democracy for the final 5 years. We have put up a valiant battle for the coronary heart and soul of this nation, so I actually cannot lay the blame at the Democratic Party.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You do not take any duty.

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: Well, look, I– as I acknowledge in my e book, there are heaps of issues I may have executed otherwise or higher. But at the finish of the day, one of our two nice events has fully deserted its ideology. It has made itself an anti-truth, anti-Democratic cult of the former President, and the duty is on that celebration to as soon as once more change into a celebration of concepts. And there are some hopeful indicators.


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: And– and one of the– the issues I need to emphasize in the e book, too, is there are additionally some nice profiles in braveness that emerge from this era. One of them you are going to have on your present later at the moment, Fiona Hill. But Marie Yovanovitch and Alexander Vindman, individuals like Dan Coats–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –you know, Republicans like Dan Coats, who– who did their obligation, defended–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –the intelligence neighborhood would not perform the President’s massive lies. And we have to be impressed by these examples as a result of all of us have a task to play proper now in the preservation of this democracy.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Before I allow you to go, I have to ask you about the January sixth committee. When will you get maintain of the paperwork that the White House has stated they’re okay with Congress taking the Trump period paperwork?

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: Well, very quickly, I hope, and I–

MARGARET BRENNAN: What are you in search of?

REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –I applaud the Biden administration for not asserting government privilege, not attempting to, as a result of it is defending its personal prerogative, deprive the American individuals of the full details. So–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –hats off to the administration. We ought to, I believe, get these paperwork quickly as a result of the sitting President has the main say in government privilege. We additionally need to ensure that these witnesses are available in and testify–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –and we’re ready to go ahead and urge the Justice Department to criminally prosecute–


REPRESENTATIVE ADAM SCHIFF: –anyone who doesn’t do their lawful obligation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: We will watch that fastidiously. Congressman, thanks in your time at the moment.

We’ll be again in a minute.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We’re going to look now at the financial system. Mary Daly is president of the San Francisco Federal Reserve Bank. Good morning to you.

MARY DALY: Good morning.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Is job progress stalling?

MARY DALY (President and CEO of the Federal Reserve Bank of San Francisco/@marydalyecon): It is a risky interval we’re in proper now, COVID just isn’t behind us, so I do not count on the job market to simply be steady. It goes to have these ups and downs, particularly with the Delta variant. So, I believe it is too quickly to say it is stalling, however actually we’re seeing the ache of COVID, and the ache of the Delta variant impression the labor market.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But do you assume you underestimated Delta’s impression?

MARY DALY: Well, I at all times anticipated Delta to take a toll, simply not put us into one other recession, and we’re seeing that toll. We’re seeing this disrupt households, disrupt education, disrupt individuals’s potential to get to work and really feel secure about it. And you’re– you see this in the month-to-month knowledge, however you additionally see it in– in any neighborhood you stroll round. Delta has– has taken a toll. But it hasn’t but derailed us, and I– and I haven’t got a distinct view than I had on it after we first began. It’s going to be arduous and as goes COVID, so goes the financial system.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, ladies are driving this decline. If you have a look at the numbers, final month, twenty-six thousand jobs misplaced, greater than males. Women are taking themselves out of the market. The participation charge is down. Black ladies specifically are struggling. What is behind these losses? And when will we attain the level the place the injury is long run?

MARY DALY: Well, it is method too early to say the injury is long run, however we’ve got to acknowledge that girls, specifically ladies with youngsters who’re caring for aged dad and mom or caring for anybody, they’re below siege. They’ve been at this since COVID got here to our shores and now they’re coping with this. We thought college may put it aside, proper? People would return to highschool; children would return to highschool and ladies may take a deep breath. But what we see is that when a child will get COVID as a result of they don’t seem to be but vaccinated and never capable of get vaccinated, the school rooms are quarantined. A buddy of mine has a enterprise herself, her husband has a enterprise. She has a child who will get quarantined. Now she’s obtained to residence college one child. And ship the different child to highschool. That is tough. And in the end, it is exhausting and ladies withdraw and say, I have to take care of my household. And after we’re previous COVID, we’ll get by this. So I do know they’re all on the market saying, let’s get vaccinated and let’s get this COVID factor fully behind us.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Since the starting of the pandemic, U.S. taxpayers have pumped about six trillion {dollars} into attempting to stabilize the financial system by some of these congressional packages. Our CBS News ballot, I need to present you two issues right here: sixty p.c of these polled assume the President just isn’t doing sufficient to fight inflation and forty-six p.c assume that his new social spending plan would harm inflation. In different phrases, it will push up the costs they pay. Should Americans be involved?

MARY DALY: Well, proper now, Americans are feeling it of their pocketbooks. Everyone’s feeling the rising costs for power, meals, primary providers, and that is painful as a result of they– they aren’t– we aren’t used to seeing it. It’s– it is eye popping in some classes. And of course, that is difficult, particularly for low and moderate-income households who were– they spend most of their cash on meals and power. So, that is actually arduous. And it is also actually straight associated to COVID. It’s associated to the provide bottlenecks, to the disruptions. That we won’t get in the world financial system individuals absolutely again to work. We cannot in the U.S. get individuals absolutely again to work. We have these actually anxious to get on the market and spend consumers–


MARY DALY: –hitting the wall of provide constraints and of course, the costs are going to– to rise. But I do not see this as a long-term phenomena. And the situation once more comes again to, if we will get by COVID, we’ll get again to the regular situations the place we’re extra used to and the ones all of us need.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But you do not see the spending– the emergency spending as inflationary?

MARY DALY: Well, any time you spend, it’ll add extra stress to the demand that is going on in the financial system. So the– the key’s if the spending that we do as shoppers is coupled with the enlargement of provide, then we will be wonderful. But if it– if we proceed to have provide bottlenecks and we maintain spending, then we will have extra inflation.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Yeah. Well, I– I used to be pointing there to the President and the flak he may take primarily based on our ballot. But I need to ask you, since you might be out in California, we talked about all these ships off the coast, container ships unable to come back to ports in Los Angeles, in Long Beach. How will these form of delays impression vacation spending?

MARY DALY: Well, proper now we see shoppers attempting to get out early and spend their cash to get their items earlier than they run out. What I actually see occurring is that persons are going to have longer wait occasions. If you are attempting to purchase one thing for the holidays, persons are shopping for it now they usually’re being instructed oftentimes they can not get it till after the vacation has handed. So there are going to be delays. There are going to be continued bottlenecks. There’s in all probability going to be some stress on vacation merchandise costs, and we will must proceed to get by that. The key once more, is simply get extra provide to the labor market, to the items market in order that we will get by this.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper. Mary Daly, thanks in your evaluation and for becoming a member of us at the moment. We’ll be proper again.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Don’t go away. Doctor Scott Gottlieb is developing subsequent. And he is obtained an replace on when the Pfizer vaccine is perhaps obtainable for youngsters below twelve. Stay with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We’ll be proper again with much more FACE THE NATION, together with a have a look at Facebook below hearth and misinformation on social media.

If you are not capable of watch the full FACE THE NATION, you may set your DVR or we’re obtainable on demand. Plus, you may watch us by our CBS or Paramount Plus app. Stay with us.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION. We go now to former FDA Commissioner Doctor Scott Gottlieb, who additionally sits on the board of Pfizer and is the writer of “Uncontrolled Spread: Why COVID 19 Crushed US and How We Can Defeat the Next Pandemic.” Doctor, Pfizer utilized for emergency approval for youngsters ages 5 to 11 to have the ability to get a vaccine. Is it cheap to imagine that by Thanksgiving, we may see youngsters absolutely vaccinated?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D. (Former FDA Commissioner/@ScottGottliebMD): I believe that is actually cheap in phrases of when this is able to be obtainable. FDA is assembly October twenty sixth, their advisory committee to debate this utility. Assuming that they authorize the use of the vaccine, CDC’s Advisory Committee goes to satisfy on November 2nd and third and make a last choice about who must be eligible for the vaccine. And assuming each of these occasions go properly, and also you get a optimistic advice out of each the FDA and CDC, this must be obtainable nearly instantly after the CDC makes a last advice and be obtainable in pharmacies and maybe pediatricians’ workplaces as properly. Pfizer plans to ship this vaccine in smaller vials and likewise smaller trays that might make it extra accessible to extra pediatric– pediatric practices.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s fascinating, so maybe extra available than when the adults went by the course of. According to the ballot that we began our program with at the moment, greater than a 3rd of dad and mom say they are going to vaccinate their 5 to 11 yr olds straight away. 1 / 4 of them will wait and see. I’m questioning what that claims to you and what you’d be in search of in the language from the CDC once they clarify this to the public?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D.: Yeah, look, I used to be truly inspired by the outcomes of that survey, there’s loads of dad and mom like me that as quickly as the vaccines obtainable for his or her youngsters are going to exit and get their children vaccinated, that see the advantages of vaccination. There’s loads of– dad and mom that also have loads of questions round vaccination. I believe for them, they need to have a dialog with their pediatrician to attempt to get snug with the thought of vaccinating children. We now have the alternative by the availability of this vaccine to extra absolutely vanquish this virus and defend a broader swath of the inhabitants in phrases of what CDC is prone to do. I believe the query is whether or not or not they will say that this vaccine must be utilized in children ages 5 to 11 or could also be utilized in children ages 5 to 11 after which maybe innumerate children who’re at increased danger for whom a powerful consideration must be made about deploying the vaccine. I believe CDC is prone to take a really cautious strategy in youngsters ages 5 to 11, partly as a result of they’re at much less danger from COVID, partly as a result of this can be a new vaccine. We’re nonetheless accumulating knowledge about it and it is a novel virus. And so, there’s nonetheless some issues we do not know. But I believe there’s loads of data obtainable. It actually makes me assured about vaccinating my children. And for these dad and mom are nonetheless have loads of questions. I’d urge them to have a dialogue with their pediatrician about the execs and cons of vaccination.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And this can be a third of the measurement of the– of the dose given to adults. Correct?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D.: That’s proper. And for youthful children, children ages six months to 4 years, which remains to be in improvement, it’ll be even a smaller dose, one tenth the dose that is utilized in adults.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, dad and mom of younger children like me will nonetheless have to attend. That’s an replace on the timeline there that you simply simply gave us. Is it going to be tougher to get approval for the smaller– the smallest of youngsters for the infants? I imply, are we wanting actually far down the line?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D.: Not actually far down the line, I believe there may be some indication primarily based on the expertise with this vaccine the place FDA requested for extra data, in addition to some suggestions that Pfizer has gotten from the company, that the scientific trials in children ages six months to 2 years after which two years to 4 years. So, it is two totally different trials, could possibly be somewhat bit bigger and somewhat bit longer in phrases of the observe up interval that is required and that might push it into 2022. Previously, we had talked about attempting to have that knowledge obtainable earlier than the finish of this yr, which may have prompted an authorization, maybe by the finish of the yr, a minimum of in children ages two to 4. I believe it is extra probably that it slips into the first quarter of subsequent yr, at the very least, however not too far into subsequent yr. Ultimately, that is going to be mentioned at the advisory committee that FDA has on the twenty sixth. So, a last advice about how giant these trials have to be and the way lengthy the observe up interval must be goes to be made at that time. I believe, look, the company has been shifting cautiously right here, however you understand, with pace recognizing the significance of getting a vaccine obtainable for youngsters. I believe in the end, if we will derive extra data, it provides extra individuals confidence about utilizing this vaccine and places CDC in a greater place to make a extra assured advice. Ultimately, the public well being goes to be served higher by that, even when it implies that it finally ends up slipping a month or two. So that is perhaps the final result right here.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you have stated beforehand on this program that finally you do assume that the COVID vaccine will likely be added to the– the checklist of necessities for youths to stroll into the lecture room. The CDC places it collectively, governors are the ones who mandate what your youngsters have to be vaccinated with. When do you count on it to be mandated for elementary college youngsters?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D.: Yeah, look, I believe it is a very good distance off. Certainly, CDC goes to have a look at youngsters ages 12 to 17 otherwise than 5 to 11 and the older children, the highschool children and center college children, do appear to get into hassle extra with COVID. It’s more durable to regulate in these settings, in order that’s going to be thought-about individually. But even that is, I believe, a multi-year effort. I do not assume that it’ll occur any time quickly. CDC goes to need to see the post-pandemic expertise, how a lot virus goes to be circulating after the pandemic and the way a lot of a danger it poses to youngsters. They’re additionally going to need to gather much more long-term knowledge in children. And so, you understand, twelve to seventeen could possibly be a pair of years away, maybe somewhat longer. I believe 5 to eleven is even longer than that. You’re going to need to get extra expertise in these youngsters. And that is barring something surprising. I imply, if we do get a brand new variant and this turns into very arduous to regulate in youngsters, if we get one thing that’s inflicting extra issues in children, you possibly can see an earlier choice. But given our present trajectory, the place we’re, that we’re beginning to get management of this virus, I believe that CDC goes to behave very cautiously. And simply last level on this, when you look traditionally at previous vaccines, the time between once they’re licensed and when CDC incorporates them into the childhood immunization schedule is a multi-year effort. HPV was first licensed in 2006 and wasn’t beneficial till 2016. Hepatitis A was first licensed in 1995 and wasn’t beneficial till 2000. So, you have seen or not it’s a multi-year effort between when these items get licensed initially and when CDC in the end places them into the beneficial schedule for youngsters.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, you instructed us that the youngest of children will not probably have a vaccine by the time we collect at Christmas time. Something that caught my eye this week was the Biden administration’s announcement. A billion {dollars} that they are saying in at-home testing. Is that the sensible plan for individuals over the subsequent few weeks? Do they should exit and purchase at-home assessments to know whether or not they can get along with their family members?

SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D.: Yeah, I do assume so. Look, I believe each family ought to have a provide of at-home assessments, that is what they’re doing in the U.Okay. and for people who find themselves priced out of the market, these assessments usually are not low cost. I believe the authorities might be doing much more to subsidize the availability of these assessments, maybe distributing them, for instance, in the Medicaid program. It seems to be to be what the Biden administration is aiming to do. I believe once you’re gathering round the holidays, it’s a must to assess the circumstances. If you have got youthful children who’re unvaccinated with older kin who’re vaccinated, however nonetheless could possibly be susceptible from a breakthrough an infection, utilizing testing–


SCOTT GOTTLIEB, M.D.: –to attempt to defend that setting, I believe, makes loads of sense. That’s actually what I attempt to do.

MARGARET BRENNAN: All proper. Doctor Gottlieb, thanks for the recommendation.

We’ll be proper again.


MARGARET BRENNAN: Welcome again to FACE THE NATION. Last week, a former Facebook worker instructed lawmakers that the firm knew its merchandise have been dangerous to youngsters and youths, stoked political division and unfold disinformation. To assist clarify all of it, we now go to CBS News cybersecurity analyst Chris Krebs. Good morning to you.

CHRIS KREBS (CBS News Cybersecurity Expert and Analyst/@C_C_Krebs/Partner, Krebs Stamos Group): Morning, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: What I assumed was so fascinating about this whistleblower is how clearly she communicated some issues which might be frankly usually misunderstood or simply too opaque. And one of the issues that she highlighted was that social media is complicit, frankly, in knowingly permitting their platforms for use this manner. Under present legislation, web firms are exempt from legal responsibility for what’s posted on their platforms. Should that be reformed?

CHRIS KREBS: Oh, completely. I believe there have been three takeaways that I had, a minimum of, from her testimony after which the 60 MINUTES piece final week. First was sure, in truth, she was very properly ready and– and was very articulate in the method she communicated the points. The second is that successfully what we’re speaking about, Facebook and others, are knowledge monopolies. They– they management the data, they usually management what’s launched and obtainable to the public. And– and the third piece, as you level out, the Communications Decency Act of 19– what’s it ’96 or ’97, Section 230 that gives immunity to those knowledge firms, these tech platforms and others must be reformed and that the algorithms and the– the commercials and the different ways in which the firms generate income should– ought to very probably be– these protections must be stripped away.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So, one of the issues that she described was how outrage generates extra engagement, that it’s actually embedded in the expertise to feed the extremes and proceed to feed them. Who takes on an even bigger function to attempt to offset some of that?

CHRIS KREBS: Well, once you step again and also you have a look at whether or not it is disinformation, misinformation or simply on-line discourse, it’s a must to cut up it up right into a provide and demand drawback as I see it. On the demand facet, there may be nonetheless a big quantity of, you understand, curiosity in uptake for lots of the rage that you– that you simply talked about. But the platforms, as you understand, as we have been speaking about, have, you understand, they– they generate income, they get extra engagement for them is an efficient factor. And these are the types of issues that– that we’d like to– we have to take a more durable have a look at. But as I had already talked about, the largest situation right here is that we do not need sufficient perception and knowledge round these algorithms and what drives the– the sprawl of data. And so, yeah, I’ve likened it to we’re– we’re in a post-Enron second the place we do not have sufficient visibility, there’s not sufficient transparency. And so, we will want some equal of Sarbanes-Oxley that requires these platforms to supply entry to safety researchers, to journalists, to regulators. And sure, regulation is absolutely– must be on the desk for Congress. And I believe that is one of these few areas proper now the place we’ve got a possibility for bipartisan engagement.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And– and it is fascinating as a result of an AP ballot executed not too long ago exhibits that there’s recognition that misinformation is an issue and there may be bipartisan help. It’s simply form of determining easy methods to do it that is the problem. You know, one of the different locations that I do know you have checked out that there’s some misinformation is on TV, on cable information. And there was a report executed by Reuters this week saying that the community AT&T helped construct a far-right channel. AT&T denied this, that that they had no monetary curiosity on this. But how vital do you assume these different platforms are in spreading data that’s manipulative?

CHRIS KREBS: I believe that is obtained to be half of the dialog, the on-line platforms, as a result of at the moment we is perhaps speaking about social media platform– platforms. You know, tomorrow who is aware of what the expertise goes to be. And so, we actually must assume by the authorized frameworks that present the– the, you understand, the unfettered alternatives on the market to– to unfold inform– misinformation. But to the– the level about AT&T and OAN and whether or not in truth that’s true, it’s in a– you understand, it is in court docket paperwork, but it surely’s– that is why it is so necessary for researchers and journalists to have entry so the market could make selections. With imperfect data, we make imperfect selections. But this enables the market to vote with their {dollars} and, you understand, I’m in all probability switching off AT&T personally to a different wi-fi service. So, these are the types of, and that is the type of data we’d like extra broadly in order that the market could make selections and that we will make knowledgeable sound coverage going ahead.

MARGARET BRENNAN: You know, speaking about politics, you ran the rumor management web site for the 2020 election in your earlier function once you have been inside Homeland Security. What you stated and the work you probably did on that’s one of the explanation why President Trump fired you. Last night time, he once more stood at a rally in Iowa and referred to as for the full overhaul of our election techniques. These calls usually are not going away. Do you assume that there’s an energetic effort underway to undermine elections as Congressman Schiff began off our program saying?

CHRIS KREBS: Without query, it is occurring at 4 totally different ranges. Both state legislatures and state elected officers, some of the people operating for secretary of state in Arizona and Georgia, however we’re additionally seeing it in the U.S. Congress. The minority whip was on Fox News this morning with Chris Wallace, and he was speaking about how the– the election was– was successfully stolen. He is not going to admit that Biden won– that President Biden gained truthful and sq.. And so, what we’re seeing is– as Congressman Schiff talked about, is that this fixed erosion of confidence in the elect– the electoral system. And it’s in the end anti-Democratic and we’re– we’re frankly in a dying spiral as I see it. And, you understand, two years, 4 years at the poll field is not ok, and there must be different accountability measures for these which might be going to proceed to proliferate these lies.

MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s an unimaginable assertion. You’re a lifelong Republican, and– and you might be acknowledging and pointing to management encouraging some of these items. How is that attainable that this continues to occur?

CHRIS KREBS: I imply, it’s– it is base– it is captured by the base, proper? I imply, they’re– they’re afraid to talk up as a result of they’re afraid the former President goes to attempt too main them. And then the different piece is that they’ve activated and misplaced management of their– their voting base, the individuals which might be going to place him in energy. And they know that in the event that they go in opposition to the former President that not solely will he communicate out in opposition to them, however they are going to– you understand, they will begin seeing individuals present up at their city corridor. I imply, you have truly seen Republican members of Congress cease holding city halls as a result of they’ve over activated their base and it is gotten out of management. And so the– once more, this can be a dying spiral. They’ve misplaced management they usually haven’t got the potential to– to rein it again in.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Chris Krebs, thanks very a lot in your evaluation, although you have given me some heartburn. Thank you. It’s at all times good to speak to you.

We will likely be again in a second.


MARGARET BRENNAN: We need to herald one other former Trump White House adviser, Fiona Hill. She was the senior director at the National Security Council and a key witness in President Trump’s first impeachment trial in 2019. Her new e book known as “There Is Nothing For You Here: Finding Opportunity in the 21st Century.” Good morning to you.

FIONA HILL (Former NSC Senior Director for European & Russian Affairs/Author, “There is Nothing For You Here”): Morning, Margaret.

MARGARET BRENNAN: So that title comes from one thing that your father, a coal miner in the north of England, instructed you once you have been coming of age. And I’m wondering what you’d say this nation to some coming of age proper now, is there something for them right here?

FIONA HILL: Well, I believe it is the query that everybody’s asking themselves, proper? I imply, this could possibly be taken as even a political commentary. So much of persons are feeling considerably alienated from, you understand, the politics, as we have been listening to by the segments. But there’s additionally in so many components of the United States, loads of questions that persons are having about their training and their academic future, notably with COVID and all of the financial issues that we’re seeing every thing you have been overlaying in all of the segments. People questioning how they will get a job. Are they going to have the ability to make a greater life– a life for themselves than their dad and mom had, which is at all times the expectation in America. I imply, I believe that is the complete premise that the nation’s been–


FIONA HILL: –based on is the concept that your youngsters, your grandchildren, will dwell higher than you. And I believe that that is the massive situation we’re grappling with proper now’s whether or not that is nonetheless attainable.

MARGARET BRENNAN: One of the issues that I believe is fascinating is that you simply have been an intelligence analyst, so you may apply that eye, that crucial eye to this nation, identical to you’d a overseas nation. So once you apply it to the United States proper now, you employ phrases like “the politics of cultural despair,” “fertile ground for populist politics.” How harmful is that this second?

FIONA HILL: I believe this dangerous– the second is extremely harmful. I imply, we’re in a harmful second. People are speaking a couple of potential constitutional disaster, we’re already in it. I imply, I used to be listening very attentively to what Chris Krebs was saying, any individual who I labored with extraordinarily intently. And when Chris needed to principally name out home threats to the election, throughout the 2020 presidential election, it ought to have been apparent to everybody. He was the Department of Homeland Security. His complete job was to push again in opposition to exterior threats, not in opposition to home actors who have been attempting to undermine the integrity of the election or to solid a doubt on it. When he needed to communicate out in public in the method that he did, it ought to have been an alarm bell to anybody watching.

MARGARET BRENNAN: And you had the National Security eye as properly. When you have a look at the politics of the second, that you simply describe as harmful, do you see a distinction between populism on the proper and populism on the left? Do you see them as equally probably threatening?

FIONA HILL: Unfortunately, I’m seeing the populism on the proper is the most threatening at the second. The populism on the left contributes to the general ambiance of polarization, you understand, however very sadly, it is on the proper that we’re seeing the fundamental threats. It’s actors on the proper, not simply in Congress and in the Senate, you understand, locations the place you’d truly count on individuals to be upholding their oath of workplace to the Constitution and to the individuals, but it surely’s actors on that proper who’re additionally principally calling for violence in opposition to fellow Americans and always are speaking down the integrity of the election system. And of course, we have simply had the rally that President Trump performed in Iowa, clearly prepping for his return to the presidency, a presidency he says that he is by no means left as a result of he is saying that the election was stolen away from him and you understand, in the ballot of the rally, about eighty-five p.c of his speech at the rally was all about the stealing of the election. I imply, principally perpetrating a lie.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Well, and that is precisely why I’ve been asking that’s the groundwork being laid query, as a result of actually that gave the impression to be the message right here. You know, in the e book Peril, Robert Costa–


MARGARET BRENNAN: –and Bob Woodward wrote, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Mark Milley, at the finish of it, is quoted as evaluating the January sixth, siege of the Capitol, to The Great Dress Rehearsal. You’re a Russia analyst,–

FIONA HILL: Exactly.

MARGARET BRENNAN: –you know instantly what that phrase is, which is what Lenin referred to as an rebellion that preceded the revolution. I learn that and I stated, “Dear God.”


MARGARET BRENNAN: I imply, he, the basic, is saying that this can be a precursor probably to additional violence? Is this overstating issues in a historic sense?

FIONA HILL: He’s not overstating it in any respect because– I imply, all of us noticed in actual time what occurred on January sixth at the Capitol constructing, and General Milley was completely proper. Any pupil of historical past, however any observer of even American politics over the final decade– I imply, when have we seen one thing like this earlier than? We have not. Not in our lifetimes. We’ve seen episodes, you understand, notably throughout the Civil Rights Movement and of course, throughout Vietnam, the place there have been protests. But storming the Capitol constructing of the United States? I imply, that is precisely the factor that you simply assume of in historic revolutions. Storming the Bastille throughout the French Revolution, storming the Winter Palace throughout the Russian Revolution that General Milley was alluding to. And as he was saying, we have seen many historic episodes the place there may be violence, individuals low cost it. They assume that that is only a passing prevalence. You know, Vice President Pence has been downplaying it, though he would have been focused. He was focused. They wished to lynch him. And then, you understand, individuals sweeping this away, saying nothing occurred right here. And the subsequent time round, you get the actual factor the place individuals truly do seize these main buildings. And I stated that additionally in the e book that this was, in impact, a costume rehearsal for one thing that could possibly be occurring close to time period in 2022, 2024. We’ve obtained election cycles right here that can heighten the tensions. And as soon as individuals begin speaking about violence, as soon as the threshold is crossed, we’re in a hazard zone.

MARGARET BRENNAN: But there are such a lot of individuals who will have a look at the investigation Chairman Schiff is working on and say that is simply politics, that is simply political messaging. They’ll have a look at the violence– I’ve heard individuals inform me this on Capitol Hill and simply say, “That’s a riot. A few crazy people.” Not the precursor or a– a dry run of a coup, as the basic put it, in the phrases of that you’re proper now. I imply, how do you reply to individuals saying you are overreacting basically?

FIONA HILL: Well, persons are saying that as a result of they have no private expertise of these varieties of occasions. But I can actually let you know as an immigrant, as any individual who got here to the United States in 1989 in opposition to the backdrop of the crumbling of the Berlin Wall and the backdrop of the finish of the Cold War, I additionally know immigrants, you understand, like myself who got here from struggle zones, who got here from locations like the former Yugoslavia or locations like, you understand, Sri Lanka, which is being pulled aside by civil struggle and battle. Afghanistan, Syria, you understand, you title it. All of the folks that I do know who’re immigrants are wanting round and saying, cannot individuals see this? We’ve come from struggle torn societies. All of the hallmarks are right here. So maybe, you understand, Americans ought to speak to some of their neighbors who’ve come from someplace else–


FIONA HILL: –and who got here to the United States to flee simply this sort of prevalence and have them inform them what their private expertise was.

MARGARET BRENNAN: Okay. All proper. Fiona Hill, thanks in your evaluation. We’ll be again.

FIONA HILL: Thank you.


MARGARET BRENNAN: That’s it for us at the moment. Thank you for watching. Until subsequent week, for FACE THE NATION, I’m Margaret Brennan.

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