‘This Week’ Transcript 10-10-21: Janet Yellen & Nick Clegg

A rush transcript of “This Week with George Stephanopoulos” airing on Sunday, October 10, 2021 on ABC News is beneath. This copy is probably not in its remaining kind, could also be up to date and should comprise minor transcription errors. For earlier present transcripts, go to the “This Week” transcript archive.

ANNOUNCER: “This Week With George Stephanopoulos” begins proper now.



SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Republicans performed a harmful and dangerous partisan sport.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R-TX): Well, I perceive why Republican management blinked, however I want they hadn’t.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): We can have one other chew at this apple, and we have to determine who we’re and what we imagine.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congress averts a debt catastrophe, solely to arrange a December showdown over authorities funding and Biden’s agenda, because the financial system stalls.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Right now, issues in Washington, as you all know, are awfully noisy. But while you take a step again and have a look at what’s occurring, we’re really making actual progress.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen, a “This Week” unique.

Blowing the whistle.

FRANCES HAUGEN, FORMER FACEBOOK PRODUCT MANAGER: I imagine Facebook’s merchandise hurt kids, stoke division, and weaken our democracy.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Facebook beneath hearth, as a former worker reveals the social platform’s priorities.

SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): Facebook and large tech are dealing with an enormous tobacco second.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Facebook govt Nick Clegg responds stay.

Plus: an ABC News unique.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Now, here is the distinction. Hillary conceded. I by no means conceded, by no means.


STEPHANOPOULOS: New particulars on President Trump’s efforts to subvert the 2020 election, as he orders loyalists to refuse subpoenas within the January 6 investigation.

Our powerhouse roundtable weighs in, with unique new reporting from chief Washington correspondent Jonathan Karl.


ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it is “This Week.”

Here now, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, and welcome to “This Week,” per week of cliffhangers in Washington, the financial system at stake.

Default has been prevented for now. Just sufficient Republicans joined Democrats to increase the debt ceiling till December, when deadlines on the debt, authorities funding and the president’s funding agenda will converge, what might be a make-or-break for the Biden’s presidency and America’s financial system.

All this poses powerful challenges for our headliner, Treasury Secretary Janet Yellen.

Good morning, Madam Secretary.

JANET YELLEN, U.S. TREASURY SECRETARY: Good morning. Thanks for the invitation.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, all of us dodged a bullet this week.

But Senator McConnell has warned President Biden that Republicans will not assist subsequent time on the debt restrict. I wish to learn a part of this letter to President Biden — quote — “I will not be a party to any future effort to mitigate the consequences of Democratic mismanagement. Your lieutenants on Capitol Hill now have the time they claimed they lacked to address the debt ceiling through stand-alone reconciliation and all the tools to do it.”

What are the implications if he retains his phrase?

YELLEN: Well, it’s completely crucial that we increase the debt ceiling.

Debt’s essential, to not fund any new spending packages, however to pay the payments that consequence from Congress’ previous selections. A bunch of enterprise and neighborhood leaders met with President Biden and me final week to speak in regards to the disastrous affect it will have for the primary time America not paying its payments.

Fifty million Americans would not obtain Social Security funds, could be put in danger. Our troops will not know when or if they might be paid. The 30 million households that obtain a baby tax credit score, these funds could be in jeopardy.

And the nation’s credit standing could be in jeopardy as properly. U.S. treasuries are the world’s most secure potential asset. That could be in danger as properly. And that actually underpins the reserve standing, foreign money standing of the greenback.

So, there is a gigantic quantity at stake. A failure to lift the debt ceiling would in all probability trigger a recession and will even end in a monetary disaster.


YELLEN: It could be a disaster.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But, you recognize, Madam Secretary, we’ve got seen this cycle so many instances. At some level votes, the votes simply aren’t going to be there. Congress goes to make a mistake, a miscalculation.

I do know you assist eliminating the debt restrict. Have you satisfied the president to again you on that?

YELLEN: Well, look, it’s actually as much as Congress.

I — sure, I’ve stated I assist, personally, eliminating the debt ceiling. I imagine that, as soon as Congress and the administration have selected spending plans and tax plans, it is merely their duty to pay the payments that consequence from that.

And which means we’ve got had deficits for many of the post-war interval. And which means elevating the debt ceiling. It is a housekeeping chore. There is basically — we ought to be debating the federal government’s fiscal coverage once we determine on these expenditures and taxes…


YELLEN: … not when the bank card invoice from — comes due.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You name it a housekeeping chore. Others say it is a charade at this level.

Why not contemplate alternate options? You know, a number of members of Congress have really helpful this trillion greenback coin.

YELLEN: Well, I wouldn’t be supportive of a trillion greenback coin. I feel it’s a gimmick. And it jeopardizes the independence of the Federal Reserve. You could be asking to basically print cash to cowl the deficit. This is a duty. It’s a shared bipartisan duty. It’s been raised virtually 70 instances since 1965, virtually at all times on a bipartisan foundation. And nobody occasion is liable for the necessity to do that. I imagine it ought to be a shared duty, not the duty of anybody occasion.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How about invoking the 14th Amendment as justification for continued borrowing? The textual content is fairly clear, the validity of the general public debt of the United States shouldn’t be questioned. Why not invoke that?

YELLEN: Well, as a result of it’s Congress’ duty to indicate that they’ve the willpower to pay the payments that the federal government amasses. We should not be ready the place we have to contemplate whether or not or not the 14th Amendment applies. That’s a disastrous scenario that the nation should not be in.

I would not wish to see the president or myself confronted with the choice about what to do if Congress refuses to allow us to pay the federal government’s payments. You know what do you have to pay first? That’s not a — we’ve got to reassure the world that the United States is fiscally accountable, and that they will rely on us to pay our payments. And that is Congress’ job to try this on a bipartisan foundation.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But, you recognize, there’s a reasonably respectable — you do not wish to be there, however there’s a reasonably respectable likelihood you’re going to be there on December third. Is invoking the 14th Amendment on the desk if Congress would not act?

YELLEN: I do not imagine any president has ever needed to decide about what they might do if Congress failed to lift the debt ceiling. I can not think about our being there on December third. I’ve confidence that Speaker Pelosi and Leader Schumer will be capable to handle this in order that we do not face this case.

This could be a self-manufactured disaster that impacts our financial system at a time once we’re recovering from the pandemic, we’ve got a fragile restoration. It could be fully irresponsible and a self-inflicted wound that might have an effect on companies and households and the worldwide financial system and the standing of the U.S. on this planet. We should never be in that place.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Of course tied to that is the president’s Build Back Better plan as properly. Democrats are negotiating over the scale of that plan proper now, attempting to get an settlement over round $2 trillion relatively than the $3.5 trillion that President Biden proposed. Is one of the simplest ways to try this by eliminating entire packages or trimming every part?

YELLEN: Well, you recognize, completely different folks, completely different members of Congress have completely different views on that. And there are energetic discussions going down now amongst members of Congress, amongst Democrats with the White House, and we’re attempting to determine what’s one of the simplest ways to assemble a bundle that might have large payoffs for America, wouldn’t solely tackle our arduous infrastructure wants, roads, bridges, ports, railroads, infrastructure for the electrical grid, to advertise — to allow us to handle local weather change, but in addition packages that might actually assist kids succeed, assist households succeed, take part within the labor power, the Child Tax Credit, youngster care, early childhood schooling, neighborhood schools. These are all vital packages and they are going to be arduous selections to barter within the coming weeks.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Manchin has proposed means testing among the packages. Is that one of the simplest ways to go or do you’ll want to make them universally obtainable so that they have stronger assist?

YELLEN: Well, there’s a trade-off there. We know that packages which are common have tended to be lengthy lasting and very fashionable. But there’s additionally an argument for, you recognize, ensuring that the very best earnings Americans maybe do not get the advantage of a program that’s most wanted by these with decrease earnings. And, you recognize, even with the Child Tax that we’re sending month-to-month checks now, there are limits, earnings limits for receiving these.

STEPHANOPOULOS: At some level, is not the president and also you — aren’t you going to must weigh in on these arguments, on these disagreements?

YELLEN: We’re working and speaking with members of Congress. And, you recognize, that is wholesome give-and-take that’s occurring proper now amongst Democrats with completely different factors of view on this. We do have a restrict on the quantity that we are able to spend and there are arduous trade-offs which are going to must be made.

But I feel everybody realizes, all of the Democrats in Congress, that that is an historic alternative that we’ve got to speculate on this — on this nation, to handle some long-standing structural issues which have been holding again American households, making their lives troublesome, making it arduous for youngsters to succeed, and making enterprise extra aggressive, putting in the investments that we’d like on this financial system to assist us — to assist us compete.

And I imagine that Democrats will come collectively and do what’s essential and benefit from this chance.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the large —

YELLEN: It’s vital they achieve this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the large adjustments you do assist is that this international minimal tax, the 15 % international minimal tax. This week, over 130 nations now assist it.

Are you assured this can be included within the bundle, that Congress can get this handed?

YELLEN: Yes. It’s — I’m assured that what we have to do to come back into compliance with the minimal tax can be included in a reconciliation bundle. I hope that we — that it is going to be handed and we can reassure the world that the United States will do its half.

This is basically an historic settlement. It’s one thing that is essential for American employees to cease what’s been a decades-long race to the underside on company taxation, the place nations attempt to minimize their taxes to draw our companies, to make it tougher to maintain jobs within the United States.

We ought to be competing on the idea of our strengths, of our folks, of our capacity to innovate, of our establishments, and never a race to the underside that merely deprives all nations, the United States and different nations that take part on this race, of the sources we have to put money into our folks and our economies.

And this settlement to position a halt on how low tax charges can go so that each one of us have the chance to gather tax income from profitable firms, and never simply from employees. This is basically one thing we have to make globalization work and to make it work for American employees.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Madam Secretary, thanks in your time this morning.

YELLEN: Thank you for having me, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let’s speak about this now. On our roundtable, joined by Chris Christie, Donna Brazile, “New York Times” Washington correspondent Maggie Haberman, and Julie Pace, the brand new govt editor of “The Associated Press”.

Chris, let me start with you.

You heard Janet Yellen say she needs the debt restrict would go away. It would not look like it’s going to occur anytime quickly. But this cycle is getting ridiculous.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, a few issues. I imply, first, I agree with the secretary, on this respect — this ought to be an argument we’re having concerning spending, up entrance, not paying the debt after you do the spending. And I feel that Congress on each side of the aisle have failed to try this over the past variety of years, actually that occurred within the Obama administration, occurred within the Trump administration, and it’s now occurring within the Biden administration.

But secondly, you recognize, there’s all this speak about folks wanting bipartisanship. But there have been two examples, George, of when Republicans have really come over to assist Democrats on points. You’ve had the infrastructure invoice within the Senate. You had 19 Republican senators include the Democrats. And now you had the debt ceiling, the place 10 got here to increase the debt ceiling.

And each instances, Democratic management has smacked again at Republicans. On the infrastructure invoice, a vote was promised by Nancy Pelosi, she broke that promise. And now, proper after the ten votes, Chuck Schumer goes to the ground to completely excoriate the Republican Party.

If we wish to encourage bipartisanship, after folks really do it, kicking them within the face is just not the way in which to get them to wish to do it once more. And what Chuck Schumer did, this week, goes to make December third a a lot deeper disaster. It’s an indication of his immaturity, and it’s an indication of his personal concern about his personal left and his personal main subsequent yr.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You can argue about whether or not he ought to have given the speech, however do you actually assume that is why Mitch McConnell is saying he is not going to supply (INAUDIBLE)?

CHRISTIE: No, what it does is politically — you recognize this, it makes it simpler for him to do it. If Chuck Schumer bought out on that flooring and made a gracious speech, the place he stated, I wish to thank the ten Republicans who came visiting right here and did it, the remainder of you’re irresponsible, however you 10, you probably did one thing nice for the nation, he is now made it simple for McConnell to ship that letter and simple for Republicans to now say, to hell with you. Now you have bought on a regular basis you need, you do it.


DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR AND ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Chris, it is too early to ship a valentine card to Mitch McConnell or anyone else as a result of, look, the reality is, is that 97 % of the debt occurred earlier than Joe Biden took workplace. Let’s — let’s — let’s take a look at it as easy folks. If you and I went out and had a very good meal, you recognize, and, you recognize, from appetizers to dessert and hopefully some wine since you’re taking me out, proper?

CHRISTIE: Right. I bought it.

BRAZILE: I imply are you able to think about two of us getting up and strolling out with out paying the tab?

CHRISTIE: Absolutely not.

BRAZILE: That’s what is going on on with this debt ceiling.

CHRISTIE: That’s — however — however, Donna —

BRAZILE: That’s the problem, Chris. And we — and we should always put it over the —

CHRISTIE: But, you recognize, in case you put —

BRAZILE: The nationwide curiosity ought to come — ought to be above the petty partisan fights that we’ve got day-after-day.

CHRISTIE: It — it ought to be. But, you recognize what, in case you had stated to me, I’m going to separate the invoice with you 50/50, I would not then kick you all the way in which to the door and name you low-cost and say you have been no good. And that is what Chuck Schumer did.

BRAZILE: But — however — however —

CHRISTIE: So my level is, Republicans did what they needed to do, 10 Republicans came visiting, did the procedural vote, and in return what Chuck Schumer stated is, you are terrible.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Julie Pace, I wish to carry you in on this.

Janet Yellen saying she’s fairly assured Democrats are going to unravel this in December, however she’s nonetheless resisting this concept that in some way the administration simply takes this off the desk.

JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: I feel that is actually emblematic of the Biden administration’s method to so lots of the issues earlier than them proper now. You know, they need Washington to work. They wish to work by the correct channels. They firmly imagine that that is Congress’ duty. And so even once they look towards December, the place it is arduous to think about that we do not find yourself proper again on this very same place, you recognize, they actually do not wish to sign that they are going to take extraordinary measures.

If we get into that scenario and we do not have Republicans who’re going to step ahead to attempt to assist them get this over the end line, it’s actually potential they must go to a few of these instruments. But Joe Biden’s place at all times goes to be, that is Congress’ duty, and I need Washington to work, even when the proof is that Washington is just not working.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Maggie, we’re actually seeing that on the negotiations or the Build Back Better plan as properly. You noticed Janet Yellen proper there. The administration would not wish to are available and say, here is our greatest plan, take this.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, NEW YORK TIMES WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: No, Biden is leaving all choices open in plenty of completely different fronts. And as Julie stated, he is an institutionalist. He doesn’t wish to blow up what we’ve got seen occur in Congress for a lot of, many, many a long time. And I perceive that.

I feel the — the problem for them goes to be, is that this a extremely completely different second, as plenty of Democrats imagine that it’s. Is this a rare time as Democrats candidly have stated again and again for the final 5 years. What we heard all through the Trump period was, that is a rare time, this can be a purpose for extraordinary measures.

Biden himself talked about that to some extent. I imply he additionally supplied olive branches to Republicans. But I do assume that there’s a — a meet between what Democrats have been saying and the realities of this second. We’re going to must see the place that goes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And I wish to take that to Donna Brazile as a result of, Donna, I imply perhaps — perhaps I’m a creature of my very own instances, considering again to the Nineteen Nineties, however $2 trillion would nonetheless be a large victory for Joe Biden and the Democrats.

BRAZILE: Huge. Huge. Yes, over ten years. Look, Joe Biden — President Biden is negotiating with a number of Democrats. I feel it is time the Democrats come collectively, determine the dimensions and scope of what it’s that we’re asking the American folks to pay for, and simply take this chance to rebuild the center class, to strengthen our financial system, and to go — go large and go residence.

This — this argument, every day in regards to the cash, the sausage-making, that is one of many the explanation why individuals are dropping respect for what — what’s occurring in Washington. They do not wish to hear about all of this sausage-making.


BRAZILE: They wish to know what’s on the menu.

Chris, do you assume the Democrats get this finished and the way a lot distinction will it make in defending them within the midterms?

STEPHANOPOULOS: I feel they’ll get one thing finished. I simply assume it is unimaginable to assume that they’re going to stroll away, such as you stated, from $1.5 trillion or $2 trillion. I imply I — you recognize, it is unimaginable. I — you recognize, I do not return so far as the ’90s fascinated with this. I simply return to President Obama. When he did an $800 billion restoration bundle within the midst of a a lot worse financial system than what we’re coping with proper now, everybody stated it was outlandish and loopy, and now they’re strolling away from $1.5 trillion to $2 trillion, greater than two instances that? They will not stroll away from it. There can be a deal that can be made right here ultimately.

But whether or not it’s going to defend them within the midterms or not, George, I’m very skeptical about that as a result of I do not assume that the American individuals are going to have the ability to see no matter outcomes they assume they are going to get from this. They will not see it in time for November of 2022. And there’s going to be an entire bunch of different issues occurring right here. COVID will nonetheless be round or not, how will they be seen as being efficient on that. 100 ninety 4 thousand jobs this week, not precisely what folks have been anticipating. And if these issues do not enhance, it doesn’t matter what they vote for and what quantity is hooked up to it, they’re going to have issues in 20 —



HABERMAN: This is the large problem for Biden. He’s going to spend this entire yr preventing to get some bundle completed and the quantity, the highest line quantity can be actually huge. But loads of that spending is just not going to be carried out subsequent yr.

So he’s going to be on the market attempting to argue for why he spent this time centered on this problem and loads of Americans will not have felt concrete advantages of it. And that could be a actually troublesome messaging problem for them proper now. And I do assume that they’ve to fret about this going into the midterms subsequent yr. How will Americans really feel about what they benefitted from all of this sausage making that we’ve got seen in Washington?

STEPHANOPOULOS: And Maggie, he is preventing for it at a time when the president’s ballot numbers now dip beneath 40 % for the primary time this week.

PACE: Yes. Look, I imply he’s — he’s dealing with vital headwinds. Now, that would change. Look, there’s a really, as you recognize, slim majority for Democrats. This was at all times go to be a tricky battle subsequent yr. But I do assume that there was a convergence of things which have made this a lot tougher for Biden.

Seeing Independents drift away from him has been an enormous downside. I do not know that they will recoup this sufficient towards subsequent yr. And that is the place the truth that Biden type of has a foot in every camp ideologically inside the Democratic occasion, in Congress, with what he is preventing for proper now, that can be a problem. It might find yourself that he can triangulate that, however it’s tough.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Okay, we bought to take one other break. You guys are going to come back again. But once we come again, committee investigating the January sixth riot is closing in on Donald Trump and his staff. Constitutional conflict is coming and Jon Karl joins us stay with unique reporting from his new e-book.



DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: As everyone right here is aware of, my new slogan was going to be “Make America” — bear in mind this, bear in mind — it was presupposed to be one thing slightly completely different than “Make America Great.” It was presupposed to be “Keep America Great.” But America’s not nice proper now. So we’re utilizing the identical slogan. “Make America Great Again.” And we might even add to it, however we’ll maintain it “Make America Great Again” once more.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald Trump in Iowa final evening as we be taught extra this week in regards to the former president’s actions forward of the January sixth riot. Chief Washington Correspondent Jon Karl has new reporting on that day in his new e-book “Betrayal.” He joins us stay after this report.


JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): While the Capitol was invaded by his supporters, Donald Trump remained out of sight on the White House.

Establishing what precisely he was doing is a central objective of the January 6 investigation within the House. The committee has demanded a mountain of confidential paperwork associated to what Trump, his high aides and members of his household have been as much as through the riot.

On Friday, President Biden ordered the National Archives to show over a batch of these paperwork. While presidents of each events have lengthy fought to guard govt privilege, which permits a president to maintain deliberations with aides confidential, Biden’s White House counsel stated, on this case: “President Biden has determined that an assertion of executive privilege is not in the best interests of the United States.”

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: He believes it to be of the utmost significance for each Congress and the American folks to have a whole understanding of the occasions of that day to stop them from occurring once more.

KARL: Trump is vowing to battle in court docket, asserting the paperwork should stay confidential and issuing an offended assertion in opposition to what he known as a pretend investigation.

For my upcoming e-book “Betrayal: The Final Act of the Trump Show,” I spoke to a number of individuals who have been in touch with Trump through the riot. Trump, the sources say, was watching TV in his personal eating room. He preferred what he noticed. He boasted in regards to the dimension of the gang, and he argued with aides who needed him to name in his supporters to cease the rioting.

I realized extra particulars about Kevin McCarthy’s name to Trump because the rioters tried to storm the House chamber. According to a supply conversant in the decision, McCarthy, pissed off at Trump’s indifference to what was occurring, stated — quote — “I just got evacuated from the Capitol. There were shots fired right off the House floor. You need to make this stop.”

The supply stated Trump pushed again, saying — quote — “They are just more upset than you because they believe it more than you, Kevin, “referring to the lie that the election had been stolen.

After the riot had been beneath means for some two hours, Trump lastly agreed to make a video assertion. In that message, he reluctantly agreed to ask his supporters to go residence, however he additionally praised them.


KARL: In “Betrayal,” I revealed that an aide who was current for the video recording advised me: “Trump had to tape the message several times before they got it right. And in earlier rejected versions, Trump neglected to tell supporters to leave the Capitol.”

Those video outtakes are exactly the type of factor that would assist the committee set up Trump’s frame of mind through the riot.

Also this week, a Senate report documented alarming new particulars about the way in which Trump tried to make use of the Justice Department to steal the presidential election. Attorney General Bill Barr refused to go alongside, infuriating Trump, when he stated in early December there was no widespread fraud.

TRUMP: Well, he hasn’t finished something. So, he hasn’t appeared. They have not appeared very arduous, which is a disappointment, to be trustworthy with you.

KARL: After Barr left in mid-December, the report says Trump pressured appearing Attorney General Jeffrey Rosen to do his bidding, however he too refused.

Rosen advised the Senate committee he stated to Trump that the Justice Department — quote — “can’t and won’t just flip a switch and change the election.” In response, Trump requested DOJ — quote — “Just say the election was corrupt and leave the rest to me and the Republican congressmen.”

In late December, the previous president turned to Jeffrey Clark, a lawyer with no expertise in election regulation, however who promised to declare — with out proof — that there was widespread voter fraud and to stress contested states to reverse Biden’s victory.

Clark additionally introduced in new conspiracy principle to the cocktail of falsehoods. As detailed in “Betrayal,” two sources conversant in Clark’s actions advised me he “believed that wireless thermostats made in China for Google by a company called Nest Labs might have been used to manipulate voting machines in Georgia. The idea was nuts, but it intrigued Trump, who asked the director of national intelligence, John Ratcliffe, to look into it.”

At a dramatic three-hour Oval Office assembly on January 3, Trump stated he needed to make Clark appearing lawyer normal. Rosen advised the committee that Trump stated — quote — “One thing we know is you, Rosen, aren’t going to do anything to overturn the election.”

Trump was then advised that each senior DOJ official would resign if he went by together with his plan, in addition to White House counsel Pat Cipollone, who stated Trump’s plan amounted to a murder-suicide pact. Reluctantly, Trump backed down.


KARL: I spoke to a few folks current for that extraordinary assembly within the Oval Office.

I’m advised that, as soon as Trump realized that he would face mass resignations on the Justice Department and easily couldn’t hearth Rosen, that he turned over to the dejected and rejected Stuart Clark, and he requested Rosen: “What are you going to do to him now?”

And Rosen stated: “Ah, there are no hard feelings. You are the only one who can fire him.”

So, George, after Jeffrey Clark tried and didn’t engineer a coup on the Justice Department, he saved his job.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Jon, extraordinary reporting there, displaying fairly clearly the president was doing every part he thought he might to overturn the election going into January 6.

And now he is doing every part he can to battle the investigation as properly, attempting to invoke govt privilege.

Steve Bannon, a kind of associates, who says he is not going to adjust to congressional subpoena.

But it’s arduous to see how govt privilege applies to anyone who wasn’t working within the White House.

KARL: Yeah, that is the primary time it’s ever been tried. It’s mainly saying that anyone that Don — that the president reached out to and talked to could be lined by govt privilege as a result of he was getting recommendation.

And, George, it’s vital that as Bannon refuses to adjust to this subpoena, his lawyer is saying, explicitly, that he is doing so on the directions of Donald Trump. Donald Trump who simply earlier this week stated that he had no downside, or steered he would haven’t any downside seeing his folks testify is now by his legal professionals saying that he would not need any of them to speak to the committee.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Jon Karl, thanks very a lot.

The e-book “Betrayal” comes out, when, November sixteenth?

KARL: November sixteenth and rather more to come back.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Jon Karl, thanks.

Up subsequent, the roundtable is again. Plus, Facebook responds to a tricky week of revelations.

Stay with us.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is prepared for extra. We’ll be proper again.



MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: I do know the media desires to distract from the Biden administration’s failed agenda by specializing in someday in January. They wish to use that someday to attempt to demean the — the — the character and intentions of 74 million Americans.

For our half, I — I really imagine all of us ought to stay fully centered on the long run.


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS: ABC “THIS WEEK” ANCHOR: Mike Pence speaking about someday in January when his life was in peril. Of course, that was January sixth, as he maneuvers for a potential run in 2024. Want to speak about that right here on our roundtable.

But Maggie Haberman, as our resident Trump professional, let me start with you.

We noticed the president in Iowa — former president in Iowa final evening, making no pretense about desirous to run once more.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, NEW YORK TIMES WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: I imply, I feel what you are going to hear him do is a few unusual dance between speaking in regards to the future, make America nice once more once more and his sloganeering, however he cannot cease speaking in regards to the previous. And that is the one factor that I feel is hanging about Pence — Pence’s assertion, which we should always word, I feel that individuals are centered on January sixth as a result of January sixth was a horrible day, not as a result of they’re attempting to demean Trump supporters.

But Trump is concentrated on trying backwards to a level that his occasion doesn’t need him to. But many members of his occasion, not everyone, many members of his occasion are usually not keen to say to him, this isn’t the way in which ahead.

Pence is just not saying it on to him. I feel the variety of voices who’re keen to try this have to date been very view.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Julie Pace, not solely not keen to say it to him. I used to be struck yesterday, Chuck Grassley, senior senator from Iowa at 88 years outdated, he is operating once more for the Senate, he criticized the riot of January sixth, however was standing there entrance and middle with the president yesterday as he talked in regards to the election fraud and the election lies.

JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Kim Reynolds as properly, the governor, Republican governor of Iowa. I imply you — this can be a occasion that’s not solely not keen to say to Trump, cease speaking about January sixth or the election, they’re overtly embracing him as he does that, as he continues to hawk false data, lies about what occurred within the election. They are standing with him as a result of they know that he’s reflective of the place the bottom of the occasion is correct now. And I feel if Trump, you recognize, does proceed this dance, shifting ahead, he’ll proceed to carry different Republicans on the sidelines who want to perhaps get on the market and problem for the nomination, however he is additionally going to proceed to maintain that a part of the occasion mobilized and alive and believing once more in an occasion that did not occur. That election was free and honest and Joe Biden received. And Trump continues to maintain loads of Americans believing in any other case.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is he profitable this battle?

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR AND ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: I do not assume so as a result of I feel any politician, good politician, skilled politician is aware of that each election is about tomorrow, not about yesterday. And so the concept that in some way the 2024 election goes to be about 2020, in any option to me, is simply not going to occur.

Now, it is also true that we aren’t but 9 months away from Donald Trump leaving workplace. We’re simply 9 months away from January sixth. And we’ve got this immediate gratification society that desires every part finished and cleaned up and completed now. That’s not the way in which life works. Anything that is price doing is price work. And work goes to take time. And that is what is going on to occur contained in the Republican Party, it should take time for this to be finished.

And I’m glad to have the ability to say that final evening I did not watch the rally. Like most conventional — like most conventional Americans, I used to be watching Texas A&M beat Alabama final evening, which I feel was rather more newsworthy to most Americans than a rally by a former president in an early caucus state.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Donna, in the meantime, the president — Chris is speaking in regards to the timeline. It’s fairly clear that one of many issues we’re seeing occurring with this entire January sixth investigation, this invocation of govt privilege, attempting to stall, is to strive to determine a option to stop that investigation from being accomplished earlier than the midterms so Republicans come again in management.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR AND ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Delay, delay, delay. That is the tactic that we’ll see again and again as Steve Bannon, of all folks, mainly says, Donald Trump says I’ve govt privilege. Well, if he has govt privilege, you will have it, I’ve it, all of us have it. I imply the man wasn’t even working within the White House through the January 6 riot.

Look, the Democrats are going to go arduous on this, together with the Republicans who’re on that committee. They are usually not going to permit Mr. Trump and the others to impede Congress. They’re going to take this, if essential, to the ground and get a felony quotation. I have a look at you not for felony, however since you’re my lawyer right here. No, child, I bought you, I bought you. But a felony contempt.

I imply, George, this can be a cut up display. You bought the Democratic Party attempting to save lots of the nation, create 5 million jobs over the past eight months, attempting to assist this financial system. And you bought the Republicans on this denial, denial. It is king — it’s king Donald Trump, who won’t concede.

That was the largest line final evening, Chris, 90 minutes, I do know, Alabama, I agree with you, however 90 minutes of simply going again and again, he hates Mitch McConnell, he hates Joe Biden, he hates Kamala Harris, he desires to run in opposition to Stacey Abrams and, oh, by the way in which, George, you will like this one, he desires Iowa, the caucuses, to go first once more (inaudible) —

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, I’m going to come back again to you on the Democrats on that however —

CHRISTIE: Let me simply say one factor actual fast on this. Again, the one space that bothers me is that once we — when there was a (inaudible) that attempted to be arrange and Nancy Pelosi determined that sure members of the Republican Party weren’t allowed to be on the committee, she makes it simple at instances, Donna, for Republicans to try this.

If in reality she had permitted McCarthy, as is at all times the case as you recognize for the minority chief to placed on the members he needed to placed on, you would not have President Trump with the ability to say the issues he is saying about Liz Cheney or in regards to the others on the committee. And so a part of it’s they are saying they need bipartisanship, however solely bipartisanship on their phrases.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me — let me carry that to Maggie Haberman, a part of the — the counterargument to that’s that the folks Kevin McCarthy needed to nominate have been specific about desirous to subvert the work of the committee.

HABERMAN: Right. I feel there’s a 3rd means right here, so to talk, George, which is that I feel if Democrats had moved quicker — and it’s arduous to not look again at this and marvel if that they had moved quicker on a fee a — or a choose committee nearer to the precise occasion, would there have nonetheless been extra power, would it not had been simpler to get Republicans on board as a result of there was nonetheless a lot depth round it. I do assume the depth round it has diminished it.

I feel that for these of us within the media and people of us who have been both in Washington that day, which I used to be not, or colleagues who have been, skilled it in another way than say the typical American. And so I feel within the public consciousness it has modified.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And a part of this — a part of that exhibits, Julie Pace, the maintain that Donald Trump nonetheless has over the occasion.

PACE: Because it’s outstanding. To Maggie’s level, there was a second popping out of January sixth the place you had Republicans who actually did really feel like Trump had pushed this too far, like he wanted to not simply go away workplace, however he wanted to be pushed apart. The means during which that dynamic has shifted has been actually outstanding this yr.

HABERMAN: Well, can I simply say one factor too? I used to be fascinated with this when Donna was speaking about there’s going to be an effort to attempt to get a felony referral, I do not know then what DOJ does, proper?

So in case you’re Donald Trump, and we’ve watched him do that again and again, he’s at all times going to push to see how far he can get away with one thing. And at a sure level if individuals are sticking by guidelines that typically go to some extent, however do not actually, you recognize, finish in a measure and accountability, the lesson he takes and that his supporters take is, see, I can simply do that once more subsequent time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It goes to be —

HABERMAN: And that’s the factor — however it’s two separate conversations occurring and on the finish of the day, he’s attempting to set this up the place, you recognize, he wins both means. I do not assume that is essentially true. But that is how he’ll see it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It goes to be an actual take a look at although for Merrick Garland.

Chris Christie, let me put this you. He’s been immune to inject the Justice Department into loads of these battles. Although this week he did, and the president did make it clear that they weren’t going to abide by these govt privilege claims. Is it conceivable to you that Merrick Garland would really act on a felony referral of this?

CHRISTIE: Yeah, it’s. I imply, look, I feel what the Justice Department has to get again to, and hasn’t been there for fairly a while in my opinion, not simply on this administration, or within the final one, however within the one earlier than that, I do not assume the Justice Department has been what it’s wanted to be because the Bush 43 administration.

You want to take a look at the info, and you’ll want to decide based mostly on the info and the regulation and act. And in case you achieve this persistently with the regulation, that many of the American folks will respect you. I feel that is what Merrick Garland has bought to determine to do. And I feel he harm himself this week with among the stuff he is doing concerning mother and father and schooling, makes him look partisan. I feel he must get again to what the Justice Department is meant to do, which is dispassionately have a look at the info, like they did after 9/11, just like the Ashcroft Justice Department did then, and I feel that is the way in which they must go and do it. And if he does it that then he has a chance to do one thing vital for the nation.

BRAZILE: Chris, no trainer ought to be threatened just because she or he is attempting to do their job. No college board —

CHRISTIE: It depends upon what you —

BRAZILE: — member. And — and — a risk — a risk is just not

CHRISTIE: — name a risk, Donna. A dad or mum standing up for what they need —

BRAZILE: No, a risk — a risk is —

CHRISTIE: — is just not a risk. No.

BRAZILE: — while you verbally assault somebody and threaten their lives, which is occurring throughout this nation.

CHRISTIE: And you recognize what, Donna? That ought to be…


BRAZILE: And I’m so glad that the Justice Department determined to take a place on that.

CHRISTIE: Well, let me simply say this.

The Justice Department can individually in every U.S. lawyer’s workplace examine these issues. We do not want broad political pronouncements from the White House and the Justice Department. It politicizes the Justice Department.

BRAZILE: It’s a continuation of January 6, and we should always not permit that to occur.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That is on a regular basis we’ve got for as we speak.

We can be proper again.



DEB HAALAND, U.S. INTERIOR SECRETARY: I’m honored to be the primary Native American U.S. Cabinet secretary and totally perceive my duty to future generations and indigenous peoples in every single place.




FRANCES HAUGEN, FACEBOOK WHISTLEBLOWER: I noticed Facebook repeatedly encounter conflicts between its personal income and our security. Facebook persistently resolved these conflicts in favor of its personal income. The consequence has been extra division, extra hurt, extra lies, extra threats, and extra fight. In some instances, this harmful on-line speak has led to precise violence that harms and even kills folks.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Facebook whistle-blower Frances Haugen on Capitol Hill this week, sparking new calls to take motion in opposition to the social media big.

Here to reply, Facebook’s vice chairman of world affairs, Nick Clegg.

Nick, thanks for becoming a member of us once more this morning.

You know, that testimony struck a chord in Congress and the nation, uncommon bipartisan requires motion in opposition to Facebook.

Will the revelations this week result in any adjustments in any respect in the way in which Facebook does enterprise?

NICK CLEGG, FACEBOOK VICE PRESIDENT OF GLOBAL AFFAIRS: Well, we are going to, after all, search to make ourselves ever extra clear, so folks can maintain us to account. We perceive that with success comes duty, comes criticism, comes scrutiny, comes duty, and that is why we’re, you recognize, the primary Silicon Valley firm to arrange an unbiased oversight board that independently adjudicate on these troublesome content material selections.

We are about to, by the way in which, topic the info that we publish each 12 weeks on the content material that we take right down to unbiased audit. Again, nobody has finished that earlier than, as a result of we notice we should be held to account.

Secondly, we, after all, are going to at all times work to do extra to maintain folks protected on our platform. We’re the third of the world’s inhabitants, our platform. Of course, you see the great, the unhealthy and the ugly, you recognize, present up on Facebook.

Our job is to scale back and mitigate the unhealthy and amplify the great, and we’ll do extra of that. So, as an illustration, we’ve introduced just lately that we’ll give new instruments to adults, mother and father, to allow them to supervise what their teenagers are doing on-line.

And third, I say, we wish to give customers extra management. We already give customers the power to mainly override the algorithm, to mainly compose their very own newsfeed on Facebook. But we’re listening to as an illustration from many individuals who use Facebook within the States, within the U.S. and elsewhere, that they type of wish to see — how I put it — extra pals, much less politics.

So we’re testing methods during which we are able to reply to that, to make it possible for the explanation — really, the overwhelming majority of people that use Facebook, which is for constructive, playful, harmless, fulfilling causes, connecting with household and pals, stays the expertise for the overwhelming majority of individuals, the overwhelming majority of time.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You had each Democrats and Republicans evaluating Facebook to large tobacco this week. How a lot does that fear you?

CLEGG: Well, I feel it’s extraordinarily deceptive analogy. Of course, we’re not.

We’re a social media app that many, many individuals all over the world use as a result of it brings utility, it helps small companies, it brings pleasure, it brings pleasure, it connects to you with folks you care and love probably the most. That’s what Facebook is about.

And, look, it jogs my memory slightly little bit of — do you bear in mind within the ’80s and ’90s, I’m now in my mid-50s, I bear in mind this. There have been analogies saying that watching an excessive amount of of this, watching an excessive amount of tv was like alcoholism or arcade video games like Pac-Man, was like drug — you recognize, drug abuse?

I typically assume you get some considerably type of overblown and considerably simplistic analogies and caricatures. But I feel if there’s any silver lining to this week is that perhaps we are able to now transfer past the slogans, the sound bites, the simplistic caricatures and truly have a look at options and, sure — and, after all, regulation.

There are sure issues that solely lawmakers can do. Only lawmakers can amend Section 230. Only lawmakers can introduce federal privateness laws. Only lawmakers can introduce legal guidelines to guard our elections and so forth.

And that is not an alternative choice to the duty that Facebook has bought as we do to proceed to speculate as we do on an enormous scale. I imply, we invested $13 billion in recent times in methods to maintain folks protected and to type of safeguard the integrity of our platform. To put that in context, that is greater than the full income of Twitter over the past 4 years.

So, we are going to proceed to try this. But ultimately, we will not make all of those selections and supply all of those societal options on our personal. That does imply — or does require lawmakers to behave as properly.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You talked about the parental duty and getting extra instruments to folks. You additionally say Facebook’s job is to mitigate the hurt and amplify the great on social media. But even researchers, and never been harsh critics, say you may be devoting extra sources to constructive interventions for teenagers.

Is Facebook ready to do extra on that?

CLEGG: Yes. We are. And we have stated that we are going to pause the work we have been doing on Instagram. Kids, we predict it is really a — really we predict it is a solution to their downside as a result of we all know that there are many children, so known as tweens between the ages of 10 and 13 who’re on-line, who, after all, should not be however we needed to supply them with a product that might make — give them a protected expertise.

But we have paused that due to the extent of considerations and we’re now going to not solely present these new parental instruments that I alluded to, however we’ll introduce new measures which is able to — would, as an illustration, imply that if a — if we see {that a} teen — or our methods see {that a} teen is dwelling on content material which may be correlated with one thing that is not good for his or her well-being, we might nudge them to take a look at different content material. We’re additionally going to introduce new instruments, what we name “take a break,” to essentially type of urge teenagers to take a break from utilizing Instagram if they seem like doing so, you recognize, for lengthy durations of time.

So, you recognize, these and different measures are measures that we at all times work on. We — I imply among the inside dialogue papers and inside analysis that have been — that have been revealed over the past two or three weeks have been exactly designed in order that we might then introduce new adjustments to our merchandise, to maintain folks as protected as potential. We haven’t any different incentive. Why would we wish to do something apart from attempt to make it possible for the most important variety of folks, for the utmost period of time, are having a constructive expertise?


CLEGG: It’s what the individuals who pay Facebook, our advertisers, need. So we’ve got no business incentive to do something apart from attempt to make it possible for the expertise is as constructive. We cannot change human nature. You at all times see unhealthy issues on-line. We can do every part we are able to to attempt to scale back and mitigate them.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you’ll be able to’t — you can even take motion to not exploit human nature as properly.

How about going again to — having Instagram return to the way in which it was earlier than, having posts present up in chronological order relatively than being ranked by an algorithm that focuses on engagement?

CLEGG: You know, so we do really already give folks on Facebook the choice to simply override the algorithm and see — see posts are available as — you recognize, within the order during which they’re — which they’re introduced. It’s chronologic.

In truth, we have gone even additional. We’ve given new instruments simply in current months so that you could impact — in impact curate and compose your individual information feed by choosing out your favourite pages and so forth.

But here is the factor. And I heard, I feel, from Frances Haugen and her staff that for them certainly one of their central suggestions is that you just simply take away the algorithms that — that — that assist rank the content material, the order during which you see the content material on Facebook. If you have been simply to type of throughout the board take away the algorithm, the very first thing that might occur is that individuals would see extra, not much less, hate speech, extra, not much less, data, extra, not much less, dangerous content material. Why? Because these algorithmic methods exactly are designed like a fantastic type of big spam filter to determine and deprecate and downgrade unhealthy content material.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Clegg, thanks very a lot in your time as we speak. I’m afraid we’re out of time.

That is all for us as we speak. Thanks for sharing a part of your Sunday with us.

Check out “WORLD NEWS TONIGHT” and I’ll see you tomorrow on “GMA.”


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